réactions à la news Vintage Revolution lance un multi-effet hybride

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Banshee in Avalon

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Sujet de la discussion Posté le 04/06/2012 à 17:14:07

Vintage Revolution présente PedalPro, un système de processeur d’effets et de pédalier de contrôle analogiques contrôlés en numérique.

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chacal549

1982

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Membre depuis 21 ans

51 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 10:22:26

Hello Massi

I like the concept of the pedalpro but the pedalino seems strange to me, and that is why so many people ask for a midi in IMHO.

You said you have classical and jazz background... so are the guitarists around you the same?
Because the pedalino really not seem to be adapted to rock stages. We move a lot, we play hard, and even with some standard controllers it is sometimes hard to target the good switch.

So Dark, square, clickless switches? pressure sensitive so you have to control the way you put your foot on? come on...

IMHO you are right concerning the MIDI protocol being not the best for your product.
But then, I think you have to propose an alternative to the pedalino, less subtle, less complex, just normal switches to stomp on to recall sounds. This way you should get twice more people interested fore sure. my 2 cents

Avocat du diable et de sa musique et expert en vacuité dispendieuse.

[ Dernière édition du message le 11/06/2012 à 10:22:56 ]

chacal549

1982

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52 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 10:29:01

Like This. This is the sort of pedal controllers almost every pro touring musician use, and it is for a reason. Something like the pedalino will scare them.

Avocat du diable et de sa musique et expert en vacuité dispendieuse.

massi1234

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Membre depuis 13 ans

53 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 10:42:01

Hi Chacal549,
I understand your points fully. And probably you are right about the interest of the people.
Nevertheless, musician (rock, funk and Jazz) are using it live and they really love it.
What is difficult to show in the video how fast and easy you can switch among presets.
If you look in the video

Rogier is capable of switching among presets without looking at the pads.

In conclusion, we had several people wondering about our footcontroller, but none of them reject the concept after trying.

I think I should invite some of you guys here or come there to test it fully.
So you can get an experience on it.

If you look on the Dutch forum, some of the them had the same doubt. After trying they change their opinion. check it out http://www.gitaarnet.nl/forum/showthread.php?152690-Vintage-Revolution-Pedal-Pro

In the Dutch Journal Gitarist, Steven Faber, explains very well what are the advantages of our footcontroller. I will post the review translate in English at the end of the month after the Journal circulation Embargo.

chacal549

1982

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Membre depuis 21 ans

54 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 11:06:04

Of course you're right. That is the problem with gear too much different. Guitarists don't often like to change their use

Then, do you plan to come in france to do demos or to send a demo unit to some pro/tech/shop? It should be the best way to convince us. I'd love to give it a try and change my mind

Avocat du diable et de sa musique et expert en vacuité dispendieuse.

massi1234

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Membre depuis 13 ans

55 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 11:25:23

We are all conservative, me included.
But sometime we have to make decision for getting better, otherwise the only new products we will see in the future are the re-issue of the 70's

Regarding distributing and shops, we had to cut off the distributors, because they would take to much money and it would not be economically sustainable for us and for users.

If some French shops will show a professional interest in the product, I will post it in the forum.

So we will have to arrange a demo for a the forum group in Paris.

Thanks for being open minded, I really appreciate it

BTW, Blick Bassy a jazz/soul player (living in France) recorded his CD Hongo Calling with the PedalPro.
The CD was in the top 5 for "Le Monde"
http://dulcecamer.blogspot.nl/2011/12/hongo-calling-in-le-mondes-top-5-cd.html
I know is not your stile, just for infos.

[ Dernière édition du message le 11/06/2012 à 11:32:47 ]

jmabate

3837

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Membre depuis 21 ans

56 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 11:57:51

I their !
I understanding this point off view too !
now it's time to try :-D

, no words will remplaced this !

I think it's possible to make an démo at Broc music in NIMES...see your MP...

my bands : Your Shapeless Beauty & Swodd

my HS : Pandora Box

AF Forum : Le Son de Votre RIG Guitare / de Votre Home Studio / de votre guitare électrique / de votre Orchestre Symphonique virtuel

chacal549

1982

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Membre depuis 21 ans

57 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 13:57:15

I know some really good and famous guitar techs in france. Maybe you should lend them one so if it is good enough they will share the buzz with profesionnal guitarists

Avocat du diable et de sa musique et expert en vacuité dispendieuse.

gueller

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Membre depuis 21 ans

58 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 16:47:38

moi aussi j attends le kemper en rack, je pense qu il ya a rien de mieux pour l instant ds cette configuration ....

Gueller

Spidouz

2402

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Membre depuis 22 ans

59 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 17:12:03

Citation de massi1234 :

If you want to have a very good wah that it react as fast as Wah pedal you need to have your latency less then 1ms.
If you control two formant filters to make a vowel you will need 4ms (2x2 ms).

And when you play 3 meters from your cab with a regular Wah, you almost have 10ms of latency...

From my point of view, it's just a really bad development choice (just like the overall design IMHO).
You could still use some protocol such CopperLan and keep a midi layer for the ones who wants to keep their own controllers (and even warn them they might get more latency than with yours Pedalino).

Personally, I don't give a damn about midi resolution when all I need is to switch a preset or turn on/off a pedal. I also don't give a damn about switch noise when I have a 50+ Watts amp few feets from. I also can't stand to _not_ have regular switches and have to look down on the controller (because of these pads) to get a visual feedback of my foot pressure.

Nonetheless, I don't want another very limited and dedicated controller to only control my pedals when I can already control everything I need (from stomps to effects and amp channels) from the controller I already own.

So it just confirms what I was suspecting from everything I was watching and reading over the internet, I'm not gonna buy this product for myself or the studios. Sorry!

I'm out of here now.

Bye,
Phil

Mon excuse à deux balles: .45ACP & 7.62x39mm

Ad Astra, Per Aspera...

[ Dernière édition du message le 11/06/2012 à 17:15:46 ]

Spidouz

2402

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60 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 17:19:03

Citation de gueller :

moi aussi j attends le kemper en rack, je pense qu il ya a rien de mieux pour l instant ds cette configuration ....

Oui je confirme. On en a un au studio c'est vraiment ce qu'il se fait de mieux dans sa catégorie pour l'instant. Moi j'attends la version rack pour m'en prendre un chez moi

Mon excuse à deux balles: .45ACP & 7.62x39mm

Ad Astra, Per Aspera...

massi1234

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Membre depuis 13 ans

61 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 18:05:34

PedalPro is designed for analogue purist. If you choose digital this product is not for you Phil ,... and the market of speaker emulators offers a lot today.

massi1234

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Membre depuis 13 ans

62 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 18:09:46

@ chacal549 and Jean Marc,
thanks for the suggestions. I will keep in mind what you all mentioned, and try to arrange a demo.

I am pretty sure that more material on the product will be available on the WEB.

Spidouz

2402

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Membre depuis 22 ans

63 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 21:35:20

Citation de massi1234 :

PedalPro is designed for analogue purist. If you choose digital this product is not for you Phil ,... and the market of speaker emulators offers a lot today.

For pedals, I prefer to stick with real pedals since I already own some and I can still buy the 3 or 4 that are in the PedalPro and I could be interested in. For the rest, I'm good for what I already have, both analog and digital (because I love using both), including my controller.

There's no way I'm gonna change my setup just to get some analog stomps in a rack (even if I like the concept).

If the Rack would have become midi-controllable, well, I would maybe rethink about it and insert the PedalPro in place of a pedal (even thought it would have been kind of expensive just for 3 or 4 effects I could be interested in), but if we can't use it without the Pedalino, it's just a no-no.

Instead I'm gonna buy a Mesa Amp and two Strymon pedals... not at all the same thing but that's what I wanted to buy anyway and they gonna work just great in my setup...

Good luck anyway

Mon excuse à deux balles: .45ACP & 7.62x39mm

Ad Astra, Per Aspera...

jmabate

3837

Squatteur·euse d’AF

Membre depuis 21 ans

64 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 22:05:02

@ Spidouz
on a compris

que tu n'était pas enchanté par ce rack voir même frustré qu'il soit si renfermer sur lui même !

my bands : Your Shapeless Beauty & Swodd

my HS : Pandora Box

AF Forum : Le Son de Votre RIG Guitare / de Votre Home Studio / de votre guitare électrique / de votre Orchestre Symphonique virtuel

tuvok

1495

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Membre depuis 19 ans

65 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 22:47:33

Citation :

Mais il y a toutefois quand même des petits soucis qui sont la conséquence de grosses erreurs de développent de produit.

Un peu comme le G-System,que j'ai possédé un bon moment et que j'ai pleinement exploité.Pour moi,ce multi (le TC) possède de grosses lacunes de conception,dont la plus grosse et la double conversion A/N/A pré et post préamp.
Au final,je l'ai revendu sans regret pour un MPX-G2,qui l'a avantageusement remplacé,le seul multi effets guitare qui sonne vraiment comme des stomp box analog,à des lieues du son aseptisé,froid et clinique du TC.

Mon premier multi était un GP-8 que j'avais acheté (la peau du cul) dans les années 80,est très franchement,ça sonnait nettement mieux que le G-System,même s'il ne proposait même pas le quart de ce que propose le TC.
Les effets sonnaient vraiment bien,avaient de la personnalité.... incroyable quand même qu'une vieille bécane d'environ 25 ans sonne mieux que du TC actuel.

Alors ce Vintage Revolution PedalPro est certainement une bouffée d'oxygène dans la jungle des multi effets.Enfin ce n'est que mon avis bien entendu !

Le Darwinisme postule la survivance du plus apte,or quel est le plus apte ?... celui qui survit. Le Darwinisme postule donc la survivance des survivants ;

theroms

444

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Membre depuis 16 ans

66 Posté le 11/06/2012 à 23:06:02

Hi Massi, you could have made it MIDI compatible by choosing a multiple of the MIDI bitrate for your pedalino and formating your data so they differ from the multiple 1s and multiple 0s read from a MIDI device transmitting single 1s and single 0s. You get the picture. As all of this usually depends only on software, you may still be able to cope with everyone's needs.

massi1234

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Membre depuis 13 ans

67 Posté le 12/06/2012 à 07:57:05

@theroms. I see your point. Like this I would waste 1 bit every byte of information. It is not too bad for one parameter change. But I still would miss the bidirectional connection.

For everybody:
I TOTALLY understand your frustrations in not having a unit MIDI in compatible. I would react the same way. Further it sounds like, "they want to sell us the footcontroller".
I share also the fact the some the digital product on the market have a better looking interface, knobs, leds...

But now consider a different point of view:
You want to have a Ferrari to race not a Toyota isn't it ?
If you could experience what PedalPro can do on sounds and expressiveness you will understand in 5 minutes our choices.
The PedalPro is a device that allows you to integrate your best effects in an amazing sound chain with the ability to REAL TIME control. To achieve this you need a proprietary foot-controller.
In my view it is the only things better then analogue pedals on the market.

And I have a question for you: since most of us would react suspicious on the proprietary foot-controller why nobody is talking about this matter after the try or review the unit?

The Journal Gitarist.nl (review is available only on paper version) title the review "THE PERFECT MARRIAGE" giving scores on sound and usability 5/5 !!!
And we are not Roland or Yamaha

If you look in to the Dutch forum, nobodies is talking about our foot-controller after the demo or after buying the product.

Of course when you take a prof. musicians with 30 years experience and you say "well you should re-think about your gears and the way to control it" ...sounds very arrogant.
But experience is showing that a lot of users change their mind on equipment and on the way to control it based on the fact that many sounds we offer were never AVAILABLE in the past. So it is a new thing.

Unfortunately the Video are showing few of the sound possibilities based on what user are used to play.

Allow me two more comments from the musician point of view.
If a device make me sound better and more unique........ do I really care if is MIDI IN compatible ?
If the sound is good how many things I really need to carry on stage?

I think Jean Marc got it really straight. One preamp on the pre-loop, one digital at the post loop and the rest is Pure analogue without noise+pedals and Jungle cables.

BTW, thanks to everyone for being interested and passionate about the matter.

[ Dernière édition du message le 12/06/2012 à 08:10:12 ]

chacal549

1982

AFicionado·a

Membre depuis 21 ans

68 Posté le 12/06/2012 à 09:19:47

I think you'd have less requests for midi if you plan to offer an alternative to the pedalino, more standard, with normal looking switches... just my 2 cents

Anyway I think everybody here would LOVE to better talk about it after a try. That IS the problem. We are debating about the pedalpro, but is it even ONE in france at this time?

I think you have to arrange a demo as soon as possible to make skepticals quiet... or hope there will be customers very soon to review it...

Will you be at summer NAMM with it?

Avocat du diable et de sa musique et expert en vacuité dispendieuse.

massi1234

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Membre depuis 13 ans

69 Posté le 12/06/2012 à 09:36:51

I agree with you. But switches breaks is a matter of time.
Unfortunately the video does not fully show how effortless without any mistake you can change the presets.

Blick Bassy owns it, but it leaves in Paris. I doubt he has the time for demoing.

Question: if we would reimburse the travel expenses how many of you would be interested to come in the Netherlands and try it ?

[ Dernière édition du message le 12/06/2012 à 09:37:32 ]

jmabate

3837

Squatteur·euse d’AF

Membre depuis 21 ans

70 Posté le 12/06/2012 à 09:46:23

I have some family in nieuwegein ! :-D

my bands : Your Shapeless Beauty & Swodd

my HS : Pandora Box

AF Forum : Le Son de Votre RIG Guitare / de Votre Home Studio / de votre guitare électrique / de votre Orchestre Symphonique virtuel

massi1234

Nouvel·le AFfilié·e

Membre depuis 13 ans

71 Posté le 12/06/2012 à 10:17:11

Great Jean Marc.
I will collect all the names and see what is the budget and get back to you as soon as possible.

Meanwhile, the Dutch forum invite me for the demo. They record few things with a simple recorder on top of the unit while playing and talking.

You might find it interesting
https://soundcloud.com/theo-nijland/sets/gear-meeting-8-juni-vintage

Max

[ Dernière édition du message le 12/06/2012 à 10:19:11 ]

Roger Axetrample

Nouvel·le AFfilié·e

Membre depuis 13 ans

72 Posté le 12/06/2012 à 11:35:57

Citation de Spidouz :

Citation de massi1234 :
PedalPro is designed for analogue purist. If you choose digital this product is not for you Phil ,... and the market of speaker emulators offers a lot today.

For pedals, I prefer to stick with real pedals since I already own some and I can still buy the 3 or 4 that are in the PedalPro and I could be interested in. For the rest, I'm good for what I already have, both analog and digital (because I love using both), including my controller.

There's no way I'm gonna change my setup just to get some analog stomps in a rack (even if I like the concept).

If the Rack would have become midi-controllable, well, I would maybe rethink about it and insert the PedalPro in place of a pedal (even thought it would have been kind of expensive just for 3 or 4 effects I could be interested in), but if we can't use it without the Pedalino, it's just a no-no.

Instead I'm gonna buy a Mesa Amp and two Strymon pedals... not at all the same thing but that's what I wanted to buy anyway and they gonna work just great in my setup...

Good luck anyway

Hi Spidouz,

you keep comparing to what you already use and know and yes, those critisicms are logical from that point of view. But now check this out:
I've been to my last 3 gigs taking only the PedalPro system, 1 or 2 pedals that i place in the programmable loops, my guitars and amp, and have a super-flexible, pure and huge sounding, completely analog, lightweight, compact setup that offers a lot of control (the expression pedal feature to control analog parameters, programmed per preset, is new and works great).
When i compare that with having to lug a huge pedalboard, rack system with programmable looper, and midi switchboard, it's a no-brainer. And even with that setup you wouldn't have the same features (you still won't be able to program your pedals, let alone have analog parameters available on an expression pedal).
So, for you, maybe not, for me, YES!
take care,
Roger

[ Dernière édition du message le 12/06/2012 à 11:40:00 ]

chacal549

1982

AFicionado·a

Membre depuis 21 ans

73 Posté le 12/06/2012 à 12:52:02

Citation de massi1234 :