Help Sonar x1 and Qcon

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vincentsemper

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Membre depuis 13 ans

Sujet de la discussion Posté le 03/01/2012 à 16:37:52

Hello,
sorry if i prefer to write in English, i can speak French but to write without make violence to the language is a match.
I hope someone will help me cause i decided to buy the Qcon few days ago, firmware version 1.03, working in the Win7 64 bit environment.
I tested the unit with cubase 5.1 with great results, perfect mapping, lcd display and so on but not with Sonar X1 Producer, my preferred DAW.
Considering the Mackie Control compatibility, i've try to configure the Icon Qcon in the control surface panel as "Mackie Control" but the reply is "Connecting..." with no results.
I've try different configuration and the working one was the "VS700" Cakewalk control surface but without the display support (nothing on the lcd display except the selected Daw name. Some botton are not correctly mapped.
Jogwheel, play/rec, mute, solo, rec are correctly mapped and working but the result is not the same as in Cubase.
The Qcon is giving only half a part of the potential.
I've try to ask to Cakewalk without reply's, the same with the Icon local (Italy) and Global support.
Considering the high number of Sonar users it seem a pity not to have a full support. It seem a firmware problem, probably they didn't yet implemented the Cakewalk specs but i'm not sure, theoretically it shoud be Mackie Control compatible.
I know in this forum there are experts and someone is in touch with them in Hong Kong, if so i would appreciate yours and their advices or ideas.

Many thanks in advance and Happy 2012 in music.
Vincent

[ Dernière édition du message le 03/01/2012 à 16:40:24 ]

Romjé

1999

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Membre depuis 21 ans

2 Posté le 03/01/2012 à 17:42:09

Hi !

I'm really sorry to have to tell you that there is no Sonar implementation as of yet for the QCon. I guess Sonar users should ask iCON to implement it, but they should gather before doing so, in order to have more weight. If there is enough asking for it, then they might do it......or not.

The Winter NAMM will be held soon and there should be some news from iCON at this moment. Maybe a new firmware revision with (this is what was announced some time ago) HUI support for Pro Tools and maybe other new things.

But nothing's for sure.

Maybe you should have had a look at the specs before buying it. The problem now is that it is not really usable as is with Sonar.

Cheers.
Jérôme

vincentsemper

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Membre depuis 13 ans

3 Posté le 03/01/2012 à 19:01:52

thank you Jerome, yes i took the risk to try and i'm 50% satisfied cause the main functions are working.
It is limited at the moment, it is as a BCF2000 but with a very good feeling and best quality.
I think they can implement using the cakewalk sdk without too much effort cause part of the Mackie standard is already used in the vs700 mode, incredible.
To come back to cubase 5.1 is a possibility but the sonar x1 at the current stage of updates is very good. I don't know the comparison with cubase 6 (i hope cubase 6 is supported by the qcon).
What do you think about ?
I have 12 sonar projects and i don't know if the moving is feasible without a lot of troubles and spendings.

Bon soir
Vincent

Romjé

1999

AFicionado·a

Membre depuis 21 ans

4 Posté le 04/01/2012 à 14:21:36

Hi !

As it works as an MCU clone for Cubase, it does work with C6, yes.

Using the Sonar SDK would mean creating a custom implementation of the QCon and a plugin for Sonar. The device doesn't work this way (as opposed to the Frontier Alphatrack, for example) so I guess it won't work this way.

If Sonar can work with an MCU, then the implemntation could be modified accordingly, but it needs a new firmware revision.

It's up to you what DAW you prefer using.

I'll pass the link to this thread to the persons at iCOn in Hong Kong. Just in case.

Cheers
Jay

Romjé

1999

AFicionado·a

Membre depuis 21 ans

5 Posté le 04/01/2012 à 14:30:43

Hi !

Found some info about your problem with Sonar X1 not detecting the Mackie Control. It seems it is a bug and Sonar needs to be updated in version 1c. Some guies with "real" MCUs had the same problem (only way to have it recognized being to choose VS 700 in Sonar, solved with version 1c).

Try this. Then start the QCon in Cubase mode and check what each button does in Sonar.

You may compare Cubase and Sonar MCU lexan overlays to try and map the Cubase buttons into the Sonar ones and then should find the corresponding functions.

Cheers.
Jay

vincentsemper

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Membre depuis 13 ans

6 Posté le 04/01/2012 à 23:04:13

Thank u so much !
I will try.

Vincent

Romjé

1999

AFicionado·a

Membre depuis 21 ans

7 Posté le 12/01/2012 à 12:16:21

Hi !

How did it turn out eventually ?

Other Sonar users might like to know, so please, keep us posted.

Cheers.
Jay

vincentsemper

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Membre depuis 13 ans

8 Posté le 03/02/2012 à 13:39:26

Hello,
a very good member of the Cakewalk forum gave me this suggestion.
I've see the reply only today so i've not yet make the try but it sound good.
The problem seems to be related to the Sysex reply the Qcon is not sending when Sonar verify the unit while chosing the Mackie.
The workaround is to send the sysex command.
Step by step:
- switch on iCON QCON: Cubase Mode
- Run SONAR
- Open a Project(or crate an new Project)
- Press "P"(Preferences) and click Control Surfaces
- Change your In Port to your second MIDI Port and click OK
- Connect your MIDI IN of your second MIDI Port with your MIDI OUT of your second MIDI Port (I know it's bad!)
- Press ALT+SHIFT+7 to open the SYSEX-View, create a new SYSEX: F0 00 00 66 14 1B 58 59 5A 00 00 00 00 F7 (save it!)
- send the SYSEX to your second MIDI (The faders of the QCON move and the Display show some information!)
- disconnect the "MIDI loop" of your second MIDI port
- Set the IN Port of your Control Surface back to "iCON Qcon Ver1.0x" (Preferences --> Control Surfaces)

It will work for sure but i hope Icon will simplify the life to the users upgrading the firmware cause it is not so difficult to do. The problem is that they don't reply to the mail. If you have a good contact please use it. They can sell a lot of unit more.
The very good surprise was using Sony Vegas. The Qcon works perfect in Mackie emulation mode. You can mix audio & Video tracks, looking at the display informations etc.. Fantastic.

Regards
Vincent

Romjé

1999

AFicionado·a

Membre depuis 21 ans

9 Posté le 03/02/2012 à 15:49:20

Hi Vincent !

Yep, I replied on Gearslutz and gave the link again. yes, that was me ;o)

I asked the question at iCON. Unfortunately, it seems it is not possible for them to have the QCon work with Sonar like a real Mackie as they cannot have it send the specific sysex (simply because the QCon is not a Mackie control and therefore cannot send a Mackie sysex ID number). And sonar needs this handshake message to work with the MCU.

If it does work, please keep us posted so that other potential users might be interested in this workaround.

Also, tell us exactly what works and what does not once the workaround has been established.

Cheers.
Jay

vincentsemper

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Membre depuis 13 ans

10 Posté le 05/02/2012 à 09:09:31

Hello, thank you Jerome for your quick reply.
Yesterday i was finally able to see that the workaround works fine !
Everything is working and also the display is showing the Sonar informations as with cubase.
I must understand some differences in the mapping (master, vsti for example) but nothing serious.
The improvement is great and i suggest to use the workaround.
At the same time i hope the firmware will upgrade cause a sysex command cannot be copyrighted, or i hope Sonar will do as Sony Vegas (works perfect) accepting a Mackie Emul.
My problem now is another......... Unfortunately after one day of hard work on the Qcon the second fader is no more touch sensible, while the others are fine, and it appear a serious problem. (power off/on and also the firmare re-flash but nothing) !!!!
A real pity. Have you a suggestion ?
Thanks in advance.
Vincent

Romjé

1999

AFicionado·a

Membre depuis 21 ans

11 Posté le 05/02/2012 à 15:38:51

Hi !

Could you please explain exactly what you did ? The explanations on Sonar Forum was not very clear. And do you have to do this everytime you start Sonar ?

For the firmware, I'm not sure they will do it, really. I think they're mostly aiming at the European and Asian markets and in these regions Sonar is very little used (most people use Cubase, Logic and Pro Tools, plus Live). I'll see with them what is possible, though.

For you fader problem, try this. Switch off the QCon and switch it on while holding the F6 button in the functions section of the device. Here, you can set the sensitivity of the faders. With the DAW selection buttons, going toward 1 makes the faders more sensitive and going toward 10 is the opposite. Or it might be the other way around, I don't remember, but while the faders get more sensitive, you'll see the sense LED blinking more and more, even lighting fully. Try this.

If it doesn't work, I guess your unit is still under warranty so you can have it changed.

Cheers
Jay

Romjé

1999

AFicionado·a

Membre depuis 21 ans

12 Posté le 01/03/2012 à 12:20:49

Hi !

Update on this problem ?

Cheers.
Jay

sdupayage

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Membre depuis 22 ans

13 Posté le 23/09/2012 à 09:49:41

Hi,

I did successfully used the workaround and it works fine but I have one issue the now time display remains off. I tried with Samplitude and it works so at least I know it's not the QCon. I also have an iPad console application who is able to display the now time with Sonar so I don't think it's a Sonar issue either (for what I understand)...

Any idea on how to have sonar sending the proper information to the QCon? Is this a problem with the Sysex used?

Also with Sonar I noticed some strange behavior when I use the buttons Track, Pan, Eq, ... the QCon remains blocked in the display and I truly don't know what to do with this.

Many thanks,
Stéphane

Romjé

1999

AFicionado·a

Membre depuis 21 ans

14 Posté le 23/09/2012 à 13:04:08

Bonjour,

Puisque tu es français, faisons ça en français ;o)

Alors, l'astuce du SysEx pour le QCon Pro et Sonar reste un workaround et le QCon Pro n'est pas pour l'instant conçu pour fonctionner totalement avec Sonar. Ca fonctionne mais il n'y a pas de mode propre à ce soft inclus dans le firmware de l'appareil. Il est clair qu'ils devraient le faire, mais en utilisant le mode Cubase/Nuendo, il y a fatalement des fonctions qui manquent, dont le timecode.

J'ai fait déjà plusieurs demandes pour qu'un mode exclusif Sonar soit ajouté. Ils disent qu'ils vont y travailler. Ils pensent que le plus gros des utilisateurs sont sous Logic ou Cubase, mais s'ils veulent vendre ce produit aux USA, il faudra qu'ils pensent à Sonar, séquenceur majoritaire là-bas.

Pour l'instant, il faut se contenter d'un fonctionnement parcellaire. Il y a bien un mode soit disant midi-learn, mais pour l'instant, il est inutilisable aussi.

Bref, cet appareil a encore une marge de progression.

@+
Jérôme

sdupayage

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Membre depuis 22 ans

15 Posté le 23/09/2012 à 15:59:38

Merci merci

Cela va m'éviter de chercher pendant des heures

A l'usage la QCon est très très bien et c'est certain qu'il y a une grosse marge d'amélioration et que si ils pensent percer aux US il va leur falloir travailler Sonar...

Au pire si ils pouvaient rendre la chose programmable avec le midi learn ça serait jouable mais franchement je ne pense pas que l'on puisse faire grand chose avec pour le moment.

Ce qu'il manque à ce produit c'est une vraie documentation technique car la doc fournie est franchement légère.

Dans tous les cas merci pour la réponse et je serai très preneur si ils reviennent vers toi. Je vais leur laisser un message également par email on sait jamais et ça ne peut pas faire de mal.

A bientôt,
Stéphane

[ Dernière édition du message le 24/09/2012 à 00:15:31 ]

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