Enregistrer des boucles synchronisées avec une boîte à rythmes en MIDI?
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Backintosh
marclr17
Backintosh
marclr17
Backintosh
Merci! Et je compte sur toi pour m'aider lorsque je reviendrai demander des conseils
marclr17
Backintosh
Bon, donc mon modus operandi serait le suivant (encore une fois exposé naïvement):
- je programme une séquence sur ma boîte à rythmes Tempest (lien vers le manuel).
- l'horloge MIDI de la Tempest contrôle le looper, ce qui fait que mes déclenchements de début ou de fin de boucles sont parfaitement calés sur le tempo de la Tempest.
- je peux donc enregistrer des boucles de synthétiseur Prophet synchronisées avec la boîte à rythmes.
J'espère que c'est clair...
Question subsidiaire: il y a assez d'entrées sur le 45000 pour faire tout ça (et éventuellement rajouter des synthés à l'avenir)?
Anonyme
quel plaisir de tomber sur quelqu'un de si sympathique!
+1000 !!
Et pas radin pour un sou sur ses connaissances et expériences...
Heureusement qu'il y a quand même quelques irréductibles de cette espèce là
Merci
marclr17
merci les gars, ça fait plaisir ! 
alors, on commence par la Tempest (quelle machine!!! 
un rêve ) :
pour commencer page 15 de l'addendum tu as tout ce qui concerne la synchro :
"MIDI: Clock Mode: Off, Master, Slave, Slave Thru—In Master mode, Tempest transmits MIDI clock and start, stop, and continue messages."
donc on est bien
du côté 45000, page 17 de la doc, tu as :
"Responding to MIDI Start, Stop
and Song Position Pointer
The 45000 has two EXT. CLOCK sync modes: FULL and BEAT SYNC. Each time you press the EXT. CLOCK button it cycles through the three modes: Internal Clock (LED off), Full (LED lit solid) and Beat Sync (LED blinks rapidly).
Full Ext. Clock Mode:
Setting the 45000 to Full EXT. CLOCK Mode enables it to respond not only to MIDI Clock but also MIDI Start, Stop and Song Position Pointer.
If your MIDI master device transmits MIDI Start and Stop commands when you begin/end playback, the 45000 will respond to these commands by beginning or stopping playback of its loop. Press play on a drum machine and the 45000 begins playing its loop, press stop on the drum machine and the 45000 stops.
When the 45000 is in Record-Ready mode, press the RECORD button and you will see the RECORD LED blink rapidly. The moment the 45000 receives a MIDI Start command it will begin recording the New Loop. If you are in Record-Ready mode but have not pressed RECORD, when the 45000 receives a MIDI Start command, it plays the loop it has stored in memory.
The 45000 will also respond to Song Position Pointer (SPP). You can advance your sequencer or drum machine to any measure you like, and the 45000, whether idle or playing a loop, will jump to the measure specified by the MIDI master. If the specified measure is outside the loop’s length, the 45000 will wrap the loop around to the correct position. For example, let’s say the 45000 is set to a 4 bar loop and you move your sequencer to the beginning of measure 6 and press Play, the 45000 will start playing from the beginning of its 2nd bar.
The 45000 works best with MIDI masters that continuously send out their MIDI Clock. Some machines only send MIDI clock when you start playback. If the tempo on the MIDI master has been changed since it last sent out MIDI Clock, the 45000 will require 1 to 3 bars of its loop to fully adjust to the new tempo. During this time, you will hear the 45000 adjusting the speed of the loop dramatically.
Beat Sync Ext. Clock Mode:
Beat Sync mode is very similar to FULL mode except the 45000 ignores the MIDI Start command. This allows you to start playback on the MIDI master device without the 45000 beginning playback immediately. At the moment you start the MIDI master, the 45000 follows the master’s MIDI clock so that the 45000 always knows where the beats are. When you press play on the 45000 it will start playback at the beginning of the loop but on beat with the master MIDI device.
The 45000 always starts playback at the beginning of its loop in Beat Sync mode and it always waits for the next MIDI master beat to start. If you want the 45000 to sync up with beat 1 of the MIDI master, press PLAY on the 45000 just before the MIDI master’s beat 1.
While in Full external clock mode (EXT. CLOCK LED lit solid), the 45000 will wait for the MIDI Clock signal. If no MIDI Clock is available when you press the PLAY button, the PLAY LED blinks rapidly indicating the 45000 cannot sync. You will see the RECORD LED blink rapidly if you try to Overdub or record a New Loop with no MIDI Clock present."
(je pars du principe que le maître est la Tempest)
on peut donc en conclure que côté synchro, tu ne devrais pas avoir de problème, en tout cas avec le start, le stop et le suivi de tempo (dans les essais que je faisais sur le 2880 avec une boite à rythme, je n'ai jamais réussi à le faire décrocher, même en changeant pas mal le tempo du master)
par contre, le 45000 prend le SPP (la position dans le morceau) et il semble que la Tempest ne l'envoie pas, pas grave si tu n'en as pas besoin
et la Tempest envoie un Continue que le 45000 semble ne pas savoir interpréter si j'en crois la doc (faudra que je refasse des essais là dessus, je ne m'en souviens pas), ce truc sert à arréter le jeu en plein milieu, et reprendre au même endroit => en général, on ne fait pas comme ça : on arrète à la fin d'une boucle ou peu un avant, on délire ensuite en live sans boucle, et on reprend au début, cf ta vidéo (mais quand même il faut vérifier que ce manque ne te pose pas de problème)
après, tu as quelques bonnes infos sur la quantif :
"45000 as MIDI Clock Slave and Master
When the 45000 creates a loop as a MIDI Clock slave, it needs to work in Quantize mode in order to create loop lengths that are exactly x number of bars in length. If you do not use the Quantize feature, the loop’s length will be completely variable depending on when you started and stopped the recording of a new loop and most likely will not sync up with the MIDI Clock master, even though the 45000’s tempo is in sync with the master.
1. If you are using the 45000 as a MIDI slave and want to produce loops of a set number of bars, the best way to do this is to record your initial loop (or New Loop) with Quantize set to ON. Follow this procedure:
a. Press the EXT. CLOCK button so that its LED is lit solid or blinking. You are now in Ext. Clock mode.
b. Press the QUANTIZE button so that its associated LED is lit. You are now in Quantize mode
c. Press the NEW LOOP button. The Record LED should blink steadily.
d. Press the RECORD button, now the Record LED should be blinking rapidly. This means that the 45000 is waiting for a MIDI Clock signal and a start command from the MIDI master. Once received it will immediately begin recording.
e. Press play on the MIDI clock master, the 45000 will immediately begin recording.
f. In Clock-Only mode, the MIDI master could be playing back during the time you press NEW LOOP. At the time you press RECORD, it will begin recording on the next BEAT 1 that it receives from the MIDI master.
g. In Quantize mode the 45000 will create loop lengths to the nearest bar. Each bar is 4 beats in length. So if you make a loop that is two bars long, it will have 8 beats.
As an example, lets create a 4 bar loop. Begin recording a New Loop with Quantize set to ON as described in other sections of this manual. While recording, press the PLAY button to set the loop length, either after the 3rd beat in the 4th bar or before the 3rd beat of the 5th bar. The 45000 will either extend or truncate the loop length to be exactly 4 bars. At the end of the 4th bar, the 45000 will stop recording and immediately begin playing/overdubbing the loop you just recorded. If you want to just play the loop back and not overdub press the NEW LOOP button to end the loop. If you want to simply end the loop and not playback at all, press the RECORD button to end the loop.
2. While in Quantize mode, if the MIDI Clock master is already playing when you hit the NEW LOOP button, then the 45000 will either begin recording as soon as you hit its RECORD button or it will first give a one bar count-in and then begin recording. To skip the one bar count-in and start recording immediately, make sure to press the RECORD button on the MIDI clock master’s beat 1. If you want the 4 beat count-in, press the RECORD button at any point in the bar after beat 1.
3. If the loop length, in bars, is known prior to recording the loops, you can create a blank loop before you start playing. For example if you create a 2 bar loop with Quantize On, then that loop will always be exactly 2 bars no matter the tempo the 45000 is receiving or sending. You can create the 2 bar loop without any MIDI being sent to the 45000, then later, turn on Ext. Clock on the 45000 and give it MIDI Clock. The 45000 will record/play at the master’s tempo and the loop will always be 2 bars. You could even make multiple loops on the SD card with different loops lengths, Loop 0 could be a 2 bar loop, Loop 1 a 4 bar loop, etc. If you don’t want or need the audio that recorded the last time you started with a blank loop, just overdub over the loop with Punch-In set to on.
4. When you are not using Quantize mode, the following is true about the 45000:
a. The tempo sent out of the 45000’s MIDI Clock has nothing to do with the loop length; it only has to do with the current setting of the TEMPO Slider.
b. When creating loops with the 45000, while the 45000 is a MIDI Clock slave, if the loops are created with Quantize off, there is no guarantee that the loops will be exactly x number of beats or bars in length unless the master MIDI Clock device can send out Start and Stop commands for the 45000 to begin and end recording and even then they may not be exact. It is best to always record with Quantize set to On when using the 45000 with MIDI Clock."
bon, c'est un tas d'infos dont il faut retenir qu'avec la quantif, tu construits des boucles dont la taille est exactement celle de ta Tempest, et que les deux seront synchronisées ad-vitam (j'ai laissé tourner un couple workstation / 2880 plusieurs heures pour vérifier, aucun décallage...)
je crois avoir compris que c'est ce que tu voulais faire, et donc ça devrait marcher
par contre, attention, le 45000 ne quantifie pas ce que tu lui envoie ! il quantifie seulement la longueur de ses boucles pour qu'elles restent synchro les unes avec les autres via midi, je veux dire que si ton jeu est approximatif sur le Prophet, il ne va pas recaller les notes tout seul pile poil en rythme, comme le font certains plugins de DAW sur les ordi qui corrigent le signal audio (rythme et même hauteur pour les chanteurs approximatifs 
) : le 45000 ne touche pas au son, il te le restitue tel quel, mais je ne pense pas que c'était l'objet de ta question, je crois que tu parlais bien de la durée des boucles
[ Dernière édition du message le 21/11/2013 à 15:45:17 ]
marclr17
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