Hand-hammering and re-creating cymbals

Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

Sujet de la discussion Posté le 23/05/2006 à 18:45:17

Hello !

Sorry for writing in English but my French is terrible. I understand it a bit but I can't write it.

I am a Belgian drummer from Bruges who also hammers cymbals.

I once started hammering cymbals because (to me) no modern factory made cymbal has the "old Turkish K Zildjian" kind of darkness and complexity anymore.

I hammer pro- and also some non-pro-level factory cymbals into much richer sounding cymbals.
Besides creating light complex jazz cymbals, I also hammer heavier rock-oriented cymbals to dramatically enrich the sound.

The cymbals I've hammered can be seen and heard on this INDEX PAGE. Mind you, I have hammered most of these cymbals to suit my personal taste (dark and trashy) but I can also brighten the sound of cymbals with a different hammering method.

Some "before and after modification" files can be heard HERE.

Some student cymbals I hammered into professional cymbals can be listened to HERE.

Here are some pictures (the soundfiles can be found on the site).

This was a Paiste Signature Power ride, hammered to sound like the old 60's Tony Williams ride, but a little heavier:

This was a Zildjian ZBT 20" ride, now a very complex thin professional jazz ride.

This was once a Paiste 2002 22" ride:

Here's a "before and after" pic of a cheap 16" Headliner crash cymbal, now a professional dark thin crash:

See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

pistonpistache

17990

Modérateur·trice thématique

Membre depuis 22 ans

2 Posté le 23/05/2006 à 21:00:32

Looks great !!

I'm not sure a ZBT could sound as good as a HH, because it's not B20 bronze.
Some of us have already tried to "re-design" their old wrecked carpy sound cymbals. Most of them by turning the edge to get a chinese like cymbal. But they were not really convinced.

But i must say it sounds. You re really self confident to get ready to touch the 20" K dre pallemaerts. Not surprisingly, it's, to my mind, the one that has change the least. (the AAX is really amazing :8O:

)

thanks for sharing !

0

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Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

3 Posté le 23/05/2006 à 21:27:51

Citation : I'm not sure a ZBT could sound as good as a HH, because it's not B20 bronze.

That is true, but if you hammer B8 very extensively the sound can become much richer and warmer, almost like B20. But it takes very much time, so the factories don't do that.

Citation : Some of us have already tried to "re-design" their old wrecked carpy sound cymbals. Most of them by turning the edge to get a chinese like cymbal. But they were not really convinced.

Changing a regular cymbal into a china must be done by hammering (only). Not bending the edge, that doesn't work. There are several china's on my site that I hammered from regular cymbals, like crashes or hihatcymbals.

Citation : You re really self confident to get ready to touch the 20" K dre pallemaerts. Not surprisingly, it's, to my mind, the one that has change the least.

Well the self-confidence comes from years of experience.
Dré Pallemaerts asked me to change the sound of his old K only a little bit, he only wanted it to be less stiff and a bit more mellow. So that's what I did. But I've had to change old K's very radically too.

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See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

IroncobrA

677

Posteur·euse AFfolé·e

Membre depuis 20 ans

4 Posté le 23/05/2006 à 21:49:54

I'm very impressed by the "new" sound of bottom-of-the-range cymbals... :8O:

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Back to the Basics

m1²

603

Posteur·euse AFfolé·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

5 Posté le 23/05/2006 à 22:11:36

bosphorus 17" & istanbul 16" crash 'after' .
for what I saw, both look and sound changes are really impressive.

where did you get these skills ? is it your job ?

do you work with your natural ear during rework or do you use some NASA-related
test and measuring devices ? do you have some pictures of your workshop and tools ?

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http://www.reverbnation.com/deinmas

pistonpistache

17990

Modérateur·trice thématique

Membre depuis 22 ans

6 Posté le 23/05/2006 à 22:38:13

Citation : Dré Pallemaerts asked me

you know him ?! I'd like to !
I must say i m dreamming of K constantinople 22" thin nights and days. If I had one, I woul prefer cuting my hand, than hammering it :lol:

m1² is right, I'd like to know more and more.

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Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

7 Posté le 23/05/2006 à 22:40:28

I learned it myself by doing a lot of experiments. My tools are very simple, just a few hammers, an anvil and a lathe (a machine to make cymbals thinner). I don't have pictures but if you go to the websites of Turkish cymbalmanufacturers you'll see about the same "old style" tools. When I hammer I constantly listen to cymbals. Factories don't do that, not even the Turkish.

I hope one day I will be able to make a living from it but the problem is that I am a cymbal lover and I spend far too much money on buying cymbals... :oops:

All those cymbals on my website are mine and they have cost me a fortune. So far my costs have been much bigger than the reward for my work...
Many people say that I should have a more attractive website to work professionally. But I don't want my cymbals getting sold because the website looks nice. I want people to buy the cymbals only for their sound, not because of a marketing strategy.

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See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

pistonpistache

17990

Modérateur·trice thématique

Membre depuis 22 ans

8 Posté le 23/05/2006 à 22:52:29

I didn't even notice you were selling some :?!:

Don't you protect your ears?

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Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

9 Posté le 23/05/2006 à 22:57:18

Citation : I didn't even notice you were selling some

That's because they don't have to get sold, I love them all !

Citation : Don't you protect your ears?

No, I want to be able to listen constantly to check the evolution of sound. Most of the hammering is usually not so loud anyway.

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See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

Anonyme

3397

10 Posté le 23/05/2006 à 23:49:29

Awesome ! Nice work, Johan VDS !

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Lapin

3517

Squatteur·euse d’AF

Membre depuis 22 ans

11 Posté le 24/05/2006 à 01:07:02

Flag

(Looking for my Meteor, on sait jamais)

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m1²

603

Posteur·euse AFfolé·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

12 Posté le 24/05/2006 à 18:33:46

> Johan

Depending on how you communicate around your activity, I think you can easily get in touch with sound-loving (?!) customers, rather than teenagers dreaming about having jOeY jOrdisSon cymbal sound from their crappy ZBT (for 50€ of course).

Very sincerely , it would be a pity to lose money in practicing your passion, and it would be a pity too not to earn some little cash from it.

For example you could get a simple and affordable website, picturing your workshop and techniques, with of course your database of audio files, and then propose your services or any pseudo-commercial activity you want to launch.

At least, make people understand that you are not just a DIY-geek who wants to show his hobby. No marketting anyway !..

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http://www.reverbnation.com/deinmas

Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

13 Posté le 24/05/2006 à 18:42:33

Citation : At least, make people understand that you are not just a DIY-geek who wants to show his hobby. No marketting anyway !

May be you are right, but I hope that when people listen to the soundfiles they will automatically hear that I'm no DIY-geek :D:

Citation : rather than teenagers dreaming about having jOeY jOrdisSon cymbal sound from their crappy ZBT

Well I certainly don't make Joey Jordison sounds but I have been able to convince some rocking teenagers to listen and appreciate richer and more complex sounding (heavy) cymbals. I'm very happy to hammer ZBT's for teenagers when they appreciate a richer sounding cymbal compared to what they can buy in the shop.

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See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

pistonpistache

17990

Modérateur·trice thématique

Membre depuis 22 ans

14 Posté le 24/05/2006 à 19:02:08

I still have my meteor, and i found them.
I want to send mine before Lapin, who is from belgium too.
Just to get him jealous.

m1² is right anyway, very few people (I think most of them already posted here), like dark thrashy cymbal. I don't say "jazz", because I hate this way to reduce the way to play.

I ll ask you for a price by private mail. Business is forbidden here :clin:

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Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

15 Posté le 24/05/2006 à 19:24:59

Citation : I still have my meteor, and i found them.

Meinl Meteors are brass cymbals like Paiste 302 and Sabian Solar. Brass has very little sound potential. I can't make professional cymbals from them, not even good cymbals. So don't spend any money on that. Only a small minority of brass cymbals have more potential (like brass cymbals from Pearl are usually made from a much better sounding brass variety).

The interesting cheap cymbals to upgrade are the ones made from B8 alloy.

0

See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

16 Posté le 24/05/2006 à 20:59:14

Fresh from my hammer, soundfiles on my SITE.

20" Tony Williams (Nefertiti) ride :

20" Complex Dry Crashride :

20" Dry Complex Rough Ride :

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See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

pistonpistache

17990

Modérateur·trice thématique

Membre depuis 22 ans

17 Posté le 26/05/2006 à 14:50:10

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Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

18 Posté le 03/06/2006 à 15:37:31

Here's some new ones I hammered.

18" Complex Light Ride 1340 gr:

http://users.telenet.be/cymbzdrumz/1_RECREATED_CUSTOM_CYMBALS/2_CRASHES_and_RIDES_18_inch_and_bigger/18_Complex_Light_Ride_1340gr_%28from_Ufip%29.mp3

20" Light Complex Dry Jazz ride 1870gr:

http://users.telenet.be/cymbzdrumz/1_RECREATED_CUSTOM_CYMBALS/2_CRASHES_and_RIDES_18_inch_and_bigger/20_Light_Complex_Dry_Jazz_ride_1870gr_%28from_Zildjian_Avedis%29.mp3

20" Complex Light Jazz Ride 1850gr :

http://users.telenet.be/cymbzdrumz/1_RECREATED_CUSTOM_CYMBALS/2_CRASHES_and_RIDES_18_inch_and_bigger/20_Complex_Light_Jazz_Ride_1850gr_%28from_Zildjian_Avedis%29.mp3

And finally, a 22" Paiste Signature Power Ride, hammered and lathed into a 22,75" Extra Dark ride, 2820 gr. The very soft B15 "Paiste Alloy" allowed me to make the cymbal 0,75" larger!

http://users.telenet.be/cymbzdrumz/1_RECREATED_CUSTOM_CYMBALS/2_CRASHES_and_RIDES_18_inch_and_bigger/22%2C75_Extra_Dark_Ride_2820gr_%28from_Paiste_Signature_22_Power_Ride%29.mp3

Pics and soundfiles of many other cymbals on my webspace !

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See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

Anonyme

3325

19 Posté le 04/06/2006 à 14:54:23

I think that developping your website and make one with a real design and pictures of your factory could increase your buisness

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Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

20 Posté le 11/06/2006 à 18:41:29

Here's a newly finished 20" Tony Williams "Nefertiti" ride.

Please copy the entire link to a new browser window to hear the soundfile.

http://users.telenet.be/cymbzdrumz/1_RECREATED_CUSTOM_CYMBALS/5_NEFERTITI_RIDES_and_related/20_Complex_Medium_Ride_2335gr_(from_Zildjian_Avedis).mp3

0

See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

21 Posté le 16/06/2006 à 20:31:29

Two sets of heavily modified Paiste 2002 hihats, now both light jazzy hihats.

13" Light hats :

http://users.telenet.be/cymbzdrumz/1_RECREATED_CUSTOM_CYMBALS/3_HIHATS/13_Light_Hihats_577_775gr_%28from_Paiste_2002%29.mp3

15" Light hats :

http://users.telenet.be/cymbzdrumz/1_RECREATED_CUSTOM_CYMBALS/3_HIHATS/15_Light_Hihats_894_924gr_%28from_Paiste_2002%29.mp3

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See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

22 Posté le 18/06/2006 à 10:12:19

20" Bright Medium Complex Ride 2210 grams

http://users.telenet.be/cymbzdrumz/1_RECREATED_CUSTOM_CYMBALS/2_CRASHES_and_RIDES_18_inch_and_bigger/20_Bright_Medium_Complex_Ride_2210gr_%28from_Sabian_AA%29.mp3

0

See and hear my custom cymbals:JOHAN Custom Cymbals

Johan VDS

60

Posteur·euse AFfranchi·e

Membre depuis 19 ans

23 Posté le 24/06/2006 à 15:24:31

Here's a new special effects cymbal I hammered. I called it the 18" "Ripple Trash" for obvious reasons. It's 1850 grams and has several sounds. It can be used as a china-like cymbal but also as a ride.

http://users.telenet.be/cymbzdrumz/1_RECREATED_CUSTOM_CYMBALS/4_SPLASHES-CHINAS-EFFECTCYMBALS/18_Ripple_Trash_1850gr_(from_Ufip).mp3